Passat (B6) :: Low Gas MPG 18 City / 27 Highway - Is This Normal
Jan 31, 2012
we recently bought a CPO 07 2.0T Wagon last November and I have been keeping track of the gas every fill-up since. I have to say I am a little disappointed of the miles per gallon as I thought I would be getting more of around 22/32, at least over 20 mpg in the city. I don't have a heavy foot, RPM are usually under 2k around (1700-1950) do, does this seem normal???
I don't know much about the vehicles history as the Dealership only told me if there were any recalls for that specific year they were probably taken care of... I have asked for an exact list of what recalls were done, but they just wont tell me or just don't know have that info... Kinda sucks I think when there is a freaking computer they use to type all the info in....shouldn't you have that info!
So if any of you know are there any special recalls that might have affected the gas mileage of car? Or certain recalls that might still need to be done that maybe seem like that never were addressed? The one thing that kinda worries me is the "cam follower" piece, and I have no idea if its been changed or not. Also I have an annoying "random tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, from the passenger feet area that vw said was normal, but in the forums here people say it is a closing heater vent not properly position itself.
Should I just demand all this be looked at by the dealer since I have a 2yr CPO warranty? Other then that is has been a great car with poor gas mileage and a tick, tick, tick, noise. See iphone gas buddy tracker image for my MPG, the spike up was a 350 mile road trip, but still not that great.
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I'm at 9600 miles now and i noticed my gas mileage started going up---the last two fill ups with the same daily route:
23.9 mpg! in mixed highway and city driving! average speed 25-35mph for a typical trip!
Now, granted I've been driving gently...but that brought me to another exiting tid bit:
If I don't want to drive spiritedly (because I'm on the phone--hands free of course---or because I'm thinking about work)....this car is so smooth and comfortable....
I had a dodge charger before and that boat wasn't as comfortable nor as agile---by a ton! And then today....it's raining in fort worth....but that's no problem...no spinning tires at lights....amazingly better traction with AWD compared with my 1.8t!
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While traveling down a city street, our 04 Passat TDI stalled out, and when restarted it made a whining noise in the front end. We had about a 39 mile drive home from there. The local VW dealership of course said since the service desk was closed, said leave the car. We drove it home. I raised it up on jacks and I noticed the underside was wet from a dark in color liquid (oil)? I traced it all back to some CV Boots on the outer sides. The drivers side was all greased up green in color and rubber chunks were chewed up all over thru the wheel well. The pass side, had a nice crack in the outer side as well, but the liquid (oily) compound appeared to be coming from the inner side of the boot. What does it usually take to fix something like this, price? I don't think that i will attempt this headache.
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I have a 1994 F-250 that we have changed the thermostat, radiator, water pump, cap, hoses, and installed a spring fan. New heads. Hot heat in the heater. It runs normal at highway speed for around 10 or 12 miles and gets hot. pull up and idle and the temp retracts. Even the block has been blown thru. What could possibly be the problem?
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Ok, so I was driving normal highway speeds and all of a sudden, I realize a major drop in power. I pull over and restart it and it changes nothing. Now when I floor it, it takes 20-30 seconds to get to 90K.
I checked the air filter... Nothing. Used a code reader... Nothing. Then I decided to pressure test the cylinders... Nothing, except now the check engine light is on.
The Ol Dub is still drivable, but it is extremely slow and rough at idle. I am thinking it might be a MAF or fuel filter.
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The primary electric fuel pump in the fuel tank of my 2004 W12 failed last month, shortly after I had set out on a cross-Canada trip from Vancouver Island to Toronto. The whole process of diagnosing and identifying the cause of the problem, mitigating it so that I could continue the trip, and finally replacing the fuel pump was kind of complex, so, here's the write-up.
The problem presented itself as a surging of the engine - a momentary loss of power - at normal highway operating speeds. The onset was progressive, but it didn't take very long - only about 60 miles of driving - from the first little cough of the engine until total failure of the pump. The first indication was failure of the car to maintain speed (while on cruise control) when climbing hills. That progressed to failure to maintain speed on flat surfaces, and finally led to the car coasting to a stop, engine stalled, at the side of the road.
I soon learned that if I floored the accelerator pedal and held it against the floor, the car would cough and burp for a few seconds, then take off like a rocket. So, for the next 40 miles, I coaxed the car into the next city by flooring it, accelerating to about 80 MPH, then coasting until the speed dropped to 20 MPH, and flooring it once again and accelerating to 80 MPH. Fortunately, I was on a remote road with few other cars, and no police.
I checked the fuses for the two fuel pumps - fuses 34 and 35 in panel C (above the left battery), and they were both OK.
The next day, I visited a VW dealer in the Canadian Rocky Mountains, and together with the parts manager and one of the technicians, we looked at the Self-Study Guides (SSGs) for the Phaeton, and looked at wiring diagrams. Eventually, we came to a tentative conclusion that the primary electric fuel pump in the fuel tank had failed. The SSGs stated that the primary electric fuel pump (the pump on the right side of the car) operates all the time, and the secondary electric fuel pump (the pump on the left side of the car) only operates during starting and during 'periods of high demand'. That made sense to us - the car started fine, and worked OK when the accelerator pedal was held to the floor (high demand). It just didn't work worth a darn at any other time... the engine would stall, or, the car would not accelerate at all.
Here are two illustrations taken from the SSGs that describe how the fuel delivery system works. The first image is taken from the 'Phaeton Overview' SSG, which applies to all vehicles. The second image is taken from the W12 engine SSG. I kind of suspect that all the Phaetons operate in the same way, regardless of engine, because the fuel tank in all the Phaetons has the same shape - two lower lobes, which means two pumps are required.
Descriptions from the SSGs
I think that there may be an error in the description above. My experience suggests that the right hand pump (identified as G6, above) is the primary pump, and the left hand pump (identified as G23) is the one that switches on during starting and periods of high demand. Note also how the identification of G6 and G23 in the illustration above is reversed from what is shown in the illustration below. I believe that the text and illustration below is correct, and the text and illustration above is incorrect.
The 'effects of failure' in the description above would, I believe, make sense if it was the left-hand pump that failed. In my case, the right hand pump failed, and the effects of failure that I experienced were as I set them out in the beginning paragraphs of this post - quite different from the 'effects of failure' of the left hand pump that are described in the SSG above.
After coming to the tentative diagnosis that the primary electric fuel pump (the right hand pump) had failed, we checked the parts stock status in North America. There was one pump in stock, but it was in the United States, and being that it was a Thursday, the pump could not be delivered before the following Tuesday. I didn't want to spend that much time waiting for it, so, we started thinking about other possible solutions.
If we could somehow get the secondary electric fuel pump - the pump on the left side of the car that only operated during starting and heavy demand - to operate, that just might put me back on the road again. So, I removed the plastic cover from the small relay that operates the secondary pump, and wrapped a rubber band around the relay, thus keeping the relay in the closed position. A short test drive proved that this solution worked just fine, the car once again operated normally. The only "problem" was that the last 25% of the fuel in the tank would be unusable, because that fuel would be left behind in the right-hand lobe of the tank - the lobe with the defective primary fuel pump.
Electric Fuel Pump Relays
Here is an illustration from the Phaeton wiring diagrams identifying the various relays above the left battery.
Here you can see the two relays for the electric fuel pumps. They are identical part numbers.
Here you can see the relay for the secondary electric fuel pump, with a rubber band wrapped around it to keep it continually closed.
Aside from the loss of use of the last 25% of the fuel in the fuel tank, the car worked just fine with the secondary electric fuel pump running all the time. There were no problems noted even under heavy acceleration. It was, however, necessary to physically remove the rubber-banded relay from its position in the relay panel whenever the car was shut down for more than half a hour. The power to this relay comes from Terminal 30 (battery direct) - it is not switched on and off with the ignition as Terminal 15 power is. This meant that if the rubber-banded relay was left in position overnight, the left hand battery would totally discharge, because the fuel pump would operate continuously all night. I discovered this the morning after the first night...
So, for the next 8 days, I drove across Canada, removing the relay each night and replacing it each morning. I didn't bother to remove it when I stopped for meals or fuel. The rest of the 3,000 mile trip was uneventful - except once, when I let the fuel tank run down a bit too close to the 1/4 full mark, and the car began surging again because the left hand lobe of the fuel tank (with the functional secondary pump) had emptied out. That was a close call, but I managed to get to a gas station and refuel.
After arriving in Toronto, I called the parts staff at my home VW dealer and ordered a new primary electric fuel pump. I discovered that the left and right hand pumps are slightly different (the various hoses coming out of the pumps are different), and I also discovered that a pump costs about $400. The parts staff suggested I order two seals (one for each side of the tank), because I would have to remove both the right and left fuel tank covers to change the right pump. The seals were not expensive.
Here are two pictures that illustrate where the pumps sit in each lobe of the fuel tank. Note the fuel filler port on the left side of the pictures (as we know, it is on the right side of the car) for orientation.
Phaeton Fuel Tank, showing pumps
Fuel Pump Access Panels
Below is a picture that shows where the access panels to the two fuel pumps are. It's easy to get to these access panels, just remove the carpeted panel from the floor of the trunk.
Here's a close-up of the right side (primary) electric fuel pump access panel.
The instructions (from the VW Repair Manual, or the ELSA / ErWin system) for replacing the fuel pump are quite well written. The repair manual suggests that the fuel tank be drained before replacing a pump. I didn't want to drain the tank, so, I ran the fuel level down as low as I dared (remembering that 1/4 full is effectively 'empty' with a failed primary pump). That proved to be adequate.
There are a heck of a lot of steps involved in disconnecting all the hoses and loosening the various components before the pump can be removed. I strongly suggest that anyone attempting this task have a printed set of instructions before starting disassembly.
The fuel pump has quite a few hoses and connections on it, but fortunately, each connector is unique in design, thus it is not possible to hook things up the wrong way when installing the new pump. It is possible to 'lose' a hose inside the tank... for this reason, I attached a small piece of string to each hose I disconnected from the pump.
The process goes more or less like this:
1) Remove the two 404 relays, to ensure no power is sent to either fuel pump.
2) Lift the rubber cover, and remove the electrical connections from both pumps (left and right).
3) Using a special tool, lift up the three fasteners that hold the cap over top of the access panel (these are NOT threaded fasteners!)
Here is a side view of the three fasteners that hold the plastic cap in place - they are friction fit, not threaded.
4) Now you have a clear view of the access panel. It will probably be dusty and rusty, and should be vacuumed clean before proceeding, to prevent crap from falling into the fuel tank when the cap is removed. The rust is due to condensation forming on the cold metal part whenever the car is filled with cold fuel from an underground storage tank.
5) A special VW tool is used to remove the locking ring from the access panel.
6) After removing the locking ring, I buffed it up with a wire brush to remove surface corrosion.
7) The plastic access cap can now be lifted. There are two electrical connectors on each fuel pump, but three possible fittings on the plastic cap. Fortunately, the three fittings are keyed differently.
8) This is what you see inside the tank after removing the plastic cap.
9) After following all the detailed instructions for disconnecting and stowing hoses, disconnecting the fuel measurement probe from the pump housing, etc., it is possible to lift the pump out. It will be full of fuel.
10) The old and new pumps, side by side. I was very surprised at the amount of crap that was trapped in the filter screen at the bottom of the pump. The car only has 60,000 miles on it, and I have always used premium fuel in it.
11) I was also a bit surprised at the discolouration of the pump components. Below you can see the old and new pumps side by side.
12) It is necessary to get access to the opposite side (in this case, the left side) fuel pump, because hoses from each pump travel horizontally across the tank and connect to the other pump.
13) Here you can see a new hose from the right side pump connecting into a T fitting above the left side pump. It is easy to thread this hose across the top of the inside of the tank.
14) As mentioned earlier, there are three possible fittings on the base of each plastic cap, but only two connectors within the fuel tank. Everything is keyed, thus improper assembly is not possible.
Once the new pump has been installed, the hoses connected, and the fuel measuring probe reset into the side of the new pump, re-assembly of everything is quite straightforward. I replaced the rubber ring around the access panel opening on each side of the tank, and I also buffed up the locking rings using a wire brush (to remove corrosion) on each side.
It was not a pleasant job - your hands get covered in fuel, and there are some hazards associated with working on an open fuel tank with vapour escaping, but it is not a particularly difficult job. It is time-consuming, though.
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1998 Passat 1.8t B5 sedan. OEM fog lights up front. No rear fog lights.
I recently upgraded to a "Euro" light switch to get more flexibility with my lights. Put tape on the TFL pin to disable DRLs in OFF Mode. Put tape on the 56d pin to disable DRLs in CITY LIGHTS (Parking Lights) mode. Completely successful -- no DRLs, just as taping the TFL pin on the original light switch accomplished long ago.
BEFORE I did any taping this time, I installed the Euro switch AS IS and tested all of its modes and physical positions:
(1) OFF: No fog light position available (switch knob will not pull out). As expected and okay.
(2) FULL ON Fog lights come on (but who the hell can see them?!?) when switch knob is pulled out one stop into the fog light position -- and the little front fog symbol on the switch lights up. Again, expected and just fine.
(3) CITY LIGHTS (Parking Lights): The fog lights position is physically available by pulling the switch knob out one stop... BUT THE PARKING LIGHTS DO NOT COME ON (regardless of ignition switch position, emergency hand brake position, etc., etc.) And the little fog light symbol on the switch does not light up. (Not surprisingly, pulling the knob further out to the REAR fog light position does nothing either.)
THIS IS NOT GOOD - since with a Euroswitch one ought to be able to manually select and de-select the fog lights while in CITY LIGHTS (Parking Lights) mode!
How to make my FRONT FOG LIGHTS available in Euroswitch CITY LIGHTS (Parking Lights) mode...?
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Our 2002 1.8t wagon has developed an intermittent "no crank" issue. All dash lights operate as normal, but when you turn the key to crank, it doesn't. The dash lights change, as if it were cranking, but what it seems like is that the clutch lockout is not engaged - ie, it acts just like you are not pressing the clutch. But, you are.
I can't seem to find any consistent thing that causes it to start - I've tried quite a few things:
- stomping on the floor by the CCM module.
- jamming down the clutch
- pumping the clutch.
One thing, (i.e., it worked once) was cranking around on the steering wheel. Anyway, after half-a-dozen or a dozen tries, all while whacking aound on various parts of the car, it will eventually start. If you turn off the car, it will start right back up again.
So, this might be able to be described as a "cold" issue, but that's not entirely confirmed too. It's my wife's car, and when she tries to go somewhere with a 2yo and a 5 yo, and the car won't start. The obvious possible things are the clutch lockout relay, the ignition switch, perhaps the CCM - but there's no wetness on the floor or anything. Any easy way to check the clutch lockout? The dash makes it pretty impossible to get under there.
I should add, no MIL, no OBD codes. Don't have a vagcom, just a regular obd2 scanner.
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I have a very annoying problem with my new (to me) 2003 Passat, when warm it tends to ping under what i would consider normal load, it's more apparent after it changes gear (auto) and also if you are traveling down the road you give the gas an extra tickle.
It soon shuts up but pinging is not a good thing any time. The car has 45000 miles so is barely broken in.... It also suffers from what i consider to be a lazy transmission which tends to make it a little worse.
I am using the recommended super grade of fuel and have tried different fuels to see if it is biased.
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I'm just starting to break in a new 2010 Passat and I hear some slight "knocking" noises at low RPMs during acceleration. It's only got 500 miles on it, so I am assuming it's just a characteristic of these engines; however, I've never owned a VW before so I don't know what is normal. this sound is typical for VW 2.0s? I think I have the PZEV version if that makes a difference.
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Since I got the car i noticed on considerably sharp or normal RIGHT turns my brake fault goes psycho and says service manual yada yada, well my brakes work fine and so does the emergency brake, i also checked to see if i was low on brake fluid, but it was topped off and no noticeable change in fluid level... could this be problems with the brake line?
Its ONLY on RIGHT turns, never goes off on left turns... Its not creating any problems to my driving just distracting and annoying as hell, it goes off roughly 3-4 times I am driving (depending on how far I drive) ...
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Its peak summer here and temperatures are around 50c. Recently I am experiencing a strange AC behavior! While driving, AC is blowing very cold air but while stationary air get little less cold and it feels sweaty... Also accelerating car makes AC more cold than cruising on normal speed...
I am wondering what it could be.... I had golf IV and never experienced it even it even parked under 50c summer afternoon.... Two weeks back, they have replaced my AC compressor valve... It could be a fan?
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