Santa FE SM (2001-06) :: 2004 - Momentary Loss Of Power / Engine Management Light Came On
Dec 19, 2013
I have a problem with my 2004 Santa Fe, 2l diesel. Will try to keep this short!
When driving it suddenly 'heaves' (not sure how else to describe it), then it cuts out. I wait about a minute and then it restarts.
At first there was no 'heave' but there would be a momentary loss of power (I thought it was the clutch). Then it progressed to the 'heave' and then cut out, this happened now and then. Very quickly it started to do it every time I drove it. My neighbor mechanic blew down the fuel line, said the fuel pump in tank sounded ok, seemed to do it more when below quarter of tank.
So I kept tank topped up, it seemed ok, then on one 11 mile journey it did it 3 times, the last time the engine management light came on, crawled it home, after which it would not start at all. The computer said it was either fuel rail or coolant sensor. Neighbor replaced coolant sensor, it started ok. Tried it next day - 6 miles and it heaved and cut out again. This time no light coming on.
I've read about cam sensor, crank shaft sensor, fuel pump at back of engine...
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Santa Fe 56 2.2 Diesel ... I am suddenly experiencing the engine management light symbol being illuminated and have severe lack of power I am wondering whether it is Mass air sensor ? blocked fuel filter? or blocked exhaust?
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I have a 2004 santa fe with a 2.7 v6. I have had a little misfire issue lately. I had a major power loss with a check engine light on it lasted for just a minute before it settled itself out. Had the code pulled at a local parts store. P0301 so I checked the plugs and they looked worn out. I pulled the upper intake and replaced the plugs and wires plus the upper intake gasket. I cleared the code and that seemed to correct the problem. Two days later, same thing happened. The engine seems to be running fine now. I wiggled the wiring harness to the injector and to the coil, no change in the way it runs. I was thinking it could be an injector or a coil pack.
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The car started rough idling and a few weeks ago while driving "lost power" momentarily. I went to take a look at it and even just idling it will randomly drop 1000 rpm, or when the gas is one in P it does the same thing. also the dash lights dim at the same time.
I pulled these codes (below). I cleared the codes and tried to replicate with no luck. The car had been sitting in a parking lot outside for a few days and it has been -15C. I asked if it seemed to only happen when it was warm (the week before it was +10C) and they said yes. It has been another week (still cold) and the codes have not returned.
Quick google of these codes suggests maybe a throttle position sensor and/or loose battery connection.
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The primary electric fuel pump in the fuel tank of my 2004 W12 failed last month, shortly after I had set out on a cross-Canada trip from Vancouver Island to Toronto. The whole process of diagnosing and identifying the cause of the problem, mitigating it so that I could continue the trip, and finally replacing the fuel pump was kind of complex, so, here's the write-up.
The problem presented itself as a surging of the engine - a momentary loss of power - at normal highway operating speeds. The onset was progressive, but it didn't take very long - only about 60 miles of driving - from the first little cough of the engine until total failure of the pump. The first indication was failure of the car to maintain speed (while on cruise control) when climbing hills. That progressed to failure to maintain speed on flat surfaces, and finally led to the car coasting to a stop, engine stalled, at the side of the road.
I soon learned that if I floored the accelerator pedal and held it against the floor, the car would cough and burp for a few seconds, then take off like a rocket. So, for the next 40 miles, I coaxed the car into the next city by flooring it, accelerating to about 80 MPH, then coasting until the speed dropped to 20 MPH, and flooring it once again and accelerating to 80 MPH. Fortunately, I was on a remote road with few other cars, and no police.
I checked the fuses for the two fuel pumps - fuses 34 and 35 in panel C (above the left battery), and they were both OK.
The next day, I visited a VW dealer in the Canadian Rocky Mountains, and together with the parts manager and one of the technicians, we looked at the Self-Study Guides (SSGs) for the Phaeton, and looked at wiring diagrams. Eventually, we came to a tentative conclusion that the primary electric fuel pump in the fuel tank had failed. The SSGs stated that the primary electric fuel pump (the pump on the right side of the car) operates all the time, and the secondary electric fuel pump (the pump on the left side of the car) only operates during starting and during 'periods of high demand'. That made sense to us - the car started fine, and worked OK when the accelerator pedal was held to the floor (high demand). It just didn't work worth a darn at any other time... the engine would stall, or, the car would not accelerate at all.
Here are two illustrations taken from the SSGs that describe how the fuel delivery system works. The first image is taken from the 'Phaeton Overview' SSG, which applies to all vehicles. The second image is taken from the W12 engine SSG. I kind of suspect that all the Phaetons operate in the same way, regardless of engine, because the fuel tank in all the Phaetons has the same shape - two lower lobes, which means two pumps are required.
Descriptions from the SSGs
I think that there may be an error in the description above. My experience suggests that the right hand pump (identified as G6, above) is the primary pump, and the left hand pump (identified as G23) is the one that switches on during starting and periods of high demand. Note also how the identification of G6 and G23 in the illustration above is reversed from what is shown in the illustration below. I believe that the text and illustration below is correct, and the text and illustration above is incorrect.
The 'effects of failure' in the description above would, I believe, make sense if it was the left-hand pump that failed. In my case, the right hand pump failed, and the effects of failure that I experienced were as I set them out in the beginning paragraphs of this post - quite different from the 'effects of failure' of the left hand pump that are described in the SSG above.
After coming to the tentative diagnosis that the primary electric fuel pump (the right hand pump) had failed, we checked the parts stock status in North America. There was one pump in stock, but it was in the United States, and being that it was a Thursday, the pump could not be delivered before the following Tuesday. I didn't want to spend that much time waiting for it, so, we started thinking about other possible solutions.
If we could somehow get the secondary electric fuel pump - the pump on the left side of the car that only operated during starting and heavy demand - to operate, that just might put me back on the road again. So, I removed the plastic cover from the small relay that operates the secondary pump, and wrapped a rubber band around the relay, thus keeping the relay in the closed position. A short test drive proved that this solution worked just fine, the car once again operated normally. The only "problem" was that the last 25% of the fuel in the tank would be unusable, because that fuel would be left behind in the right-hand lobe of the tank - the lobe with the defective primary fuel pump.
Electric Fuel Pump Relays
Here is an illustration from the Phaeton wiring diagrams identifying the various relays above the left battery.
Here you can see the two relays for the electric fuel pumps. They are identical part numbers.
Here you can see the relay for the secondary electric fuel pump, with a rubber band wrapped around it to keep it continually closed.
Aside from the loss of use of the last 25% of the fuel in the fuel tank, the car worked just fine with the secondary electric fuel pump running all the time. There were no problems noted even under heavy acceleration. It was, however, necessary to physically remove the rubber-banded relay from its position in the relay panel whenever the car was shut down for more than half a hour. The power to this relay comes from Terminal 30 (battery direct) - it is not switched on and off with the ignition as Terminal 15 power is. This meant that if the rubber-banded relay was left in position overnight, the left hand battery would totally discharge, because the fuel pump would operate continuously all night. I discovered this the morning after the first night...
So, for the next 8 days, I drove across Canada, removing the relay each night and replacing it each morning. I didn't bother to remove it when I stopped for meals or fuel. The rest of the 3,000 mile trip was uneventful - except once, when I let the fuel tank run down a bit too close to the 1/4 full mark, and the car began surging again because the left hand lobe of the fuel tank (with the functional secondary pump) had emptied out. That was a close call, but I managed to get to a gas station and refuel.
After arriving in Toronto, I called the parts staff at my home VW dealer and ordered a new primary electric fuel pump. I discovered that the left and right hand pumps are slightly different (the various hoses coming out of the pumps are different), and I also discovered that a pump costs about $400. The parts staff suggested I order two seals (one for each side of the tank), because I would have to remove both the right and left fuel tank covers to change the right pump. The seals were not expensive.
Here are two pictures that illustrate where the pumps sit in each lobe of the fuel tank. Note the fuel filler port on the left side of the pictures (as we know, it is on the right side of the car) for orientation.
Phaeton Fuel Tank, showing pumps
Fuel Pump Access Panels
Below is a picture that shows where the access panels to the two fuel pumps are. It's easy to get to these access panels, just remove the carpeted panel from the floor of the trunk.
Here's a close-up of the right side (primary) electric fuel pump access panel.
The instructions (from the VW Repair Manual, or the ELSA / ErWin system) for replacing the fuel pump are quite well written. The repair manual suggests that the fuel tank be drained before replacing a pump. I didn't want to drain the tank, so, I ran the fuel level down as low as I dared (remembering that 1/4 full is effectively 'empty' with a failed primary pump). That proved to be adequate.
There are a heck of a lot of steps involved in disconnecting all the hoses and loosening the various components before the pump can be removed. I strongly suggest that anyone attempting this task have a printed set of instructions before starting disassembly.
The fuel pump has quite a few hoses and connections on it, but fortunately, each connector is unique in design, thus it is not possible to hook things up the wrong way when installing the new pump. It is possible to 'lose' a hose inside the tank... for this reason, I attached a small piece of string to each hose I disconnected from the pump.
The process goes more or less like this:
1) Remove the two 404 relays, to ensure no power is sent to either fuel pump.
2) Lift the rubber cover, and remove the electrical connections from both pumps (left and right).
3) Using a special tool, lift up the three fasteners that hold the cap over top of the access panel (these are NOT threaded fasteners!)
Here is a side view of the three fasteners that hold the plastic cap in place - they are friction fit, not threaded.
4) Now you have a clear view of the access panel. It will probably be dusty and rusty, and should be vacuumed clean before proceeding, to prevent crap from falling into the fuel tank when the cap is removed. The rust is due to condensation forming on the cold metal part whenever the car is filled with cold fuel from an underground storage tank.
5) A special VW tool is used to remove the locking ring from the access panel.
6) After removing the locking ring, I buffed it up with a wire brush to remove surface corrosion.
7) The plastic access cap can now be lifted. There are two electrical connectors on each fuel pump, but three possible fittings on the plastic cap. Fortunately, the three fittings are keyed differently.
8) This is what you see inside the tank after removing the plastic cap.
9) After following all the detailed instructions for disconnecting and stowing hoses, disconnecting the fuel measurement probe from the pump housing, etc., it is possible to lift the pump out. It will be full of fuel.
10) The old and new pumps, side by side. I was very surprised at the amount of crap that was trapped in the filter screen at the bottom of the pump. The car only has 60,000 miles on it, and I have always used premium fuel in it.
11) I was also a bit surprised at the discolouration of the pump components. Below you can see the old and new pumps side by side.
12) It is necessary to get access to the opposite side (in this case, the left side) fuel pump, because hoses from each pump travel horizontally across the tank and connect to the other pump.
13) Here you can see a new hose from the right side pump connecting into a T fitting above the left side pump. It is easy to thread this hose across the top of the inside of the tank.
14) As mentioned earlier, there are three possible fittings on the base of each plastic cap, but only two connectors within the fuel tank. Everything is keyed, thus improper assembly is not possible.
Once the new pump has been installed, the hoses connected, and the fuel measuring probe reset into the side of the new pump, re-assembly of everything is quite straightforward. I replaced the rubber ring around the access panel opening on each side of the tank, and I also buffed up the locking rings using a wire brush (to remove corrosion) on each side.
It was not a pleasant job - your hands get covered in fuel, and there are some hazards associated with working on an open fuel tank with vapour escaping, but it is not a particularly difficult job. It is time-consuming, though.
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I bought a 2008 Santa Fe last September, since around 2 weeks after I bought it the engine management light has been coming on intermittently. First it then after a few starts it goes off, only to come on again a few days later. Basically dealership hasn't got a clue what's causing it and thus far they've:
Replaced the DPF
Replaced the temp sensors
Replaced injector sleeves
Cleaned the EGR
DPF was changed after they couldn't force regen.
Now, it mainly comes on when I've got cruise control on, although the way I turn it on is bizarre, I have to hold down the on/off and cancel buttons for 10 seconds before it turns on.
Basically I am now running out of solutions as are the dealers, they can't replicate the problem ( although they haven't tried with the cruise)...
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A couple weeks ago I had to have both lower ball joints replaced on my '01 XLS 4WD with the 6 cylinder engine. The garage's alignment machine was on the blink, so the mechanic told me to it woudl be fine to drive, and to bring it back this week when the machine was fixed.
The Escape seemed to drive fine until today, coming home from work, the Escape veered slightly to the right, and there was a brief sensation in the steering wheel as if it had been disconnected, as if something slipped. Then the steering was back, and although I was tracking straight down the highway, I noticed the steering wheel was turned to the left. It seemed to steer fine, although I had slowed way down.
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2001.5 V6 Tiptronic ... A few times in the last couple of months I've felt what I think is a quick lapse in power, like 1 sec. or less. I say "think" because sometimes a bump in the road, traction related, or some other perceived issue can feel strange, especially when cruising along on a smooth cruise-controlled drive.
Each time this has occurred I've been in cruise control, freeway driving, relatively low speeds (65 MPH) . No other signs of anything wrong, chimes, flickering lights, vibration, nothing.
I can't be sure this time around but it seems in the past it's been on the same stretch of freeway, perhaps the same spot. In other words perhaps just a subtle anomaly in the road ...
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2004 2.4L Hyundai Santa Fe here, died whilst travelling, lost all power and then wouldn't start. Sounds like its trying to turn over.
The fuel cut off seems to have been activated as it clicked when I pushed it but the car still wont start.
I do not have any engine management lights but when connecting the code reader I got P0320, however the code was stored but not present... and still the car will not start. I cleared the code and the code didn't re appear but the car will still not start.
As the code isn't immediately present does this mean the sensor is at fault or do I have other problems?
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When I bought the car a few weeks ago, there was a p0507 code for a high idle in park, about 1300 RPM, but sometimes shooting up to 3000 when I shifted into park and then dying down. The code goes on and off intermittently. Not that big of a deal at first. Then I started noticing that if I revved it in park it would take forever to die down to 1300, and sometimes would fluctuate around 2000. I also noticed hesitation while accelerating around 1500 RPM and the transmission hunting for gears while accelerating, as well. I noticed my throttle cable was very slack so I tightened that, and bought myself a throttle position sensor, thinking that might be the problem, but didn't install it yet.
I was driving on the freeway yesterday in cruise control and then I started losing power while my foot was on the gas. With my foot on the gas, the throttle would cut out every second. I was basically one second of throttle, one second of no throttle, all the way down the highway. Almost impossible to drive. This continued even after I turned cruise control off. I limped my way to Home Depot and installed my TPS in the parking lot, and drove most of the way home with no issues, although I still noticed a slight hesitation while accelerating. Alas, I tested cruise control again and then the throttle on/off problem started again, then I could barely drive the thing, even after cruise control was off again. I'll be returning the new TPS to Autozone today, since apparently that's not the problem. What's my next move?
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I have had the car sense it was brand new and sense I have had it I have had this problem. I mostly notice a problem soon after starting the engine up and come to a stop, but is not limited to that all the times. When I come to a stop the car will feel like it is struggling to maintain an idle as I sit at the light or stop sign and it will actually shake the car a bit. I have noticed when it does do this the fan is on and it might be related to having the alternator trying to keep up with power draw.
I have noticed a loss of power when I am driving down the road it will cut out for maybe a half a second and come back. Usually doesn't happen more than once in one trip. I have brought it to the dealership multiple times to try and see if the can hunt down a problem but it keeps coming back with a clean bill of health. So my question is it something that is normal with diesel engines or is it something that I should take a further look at.
And while on the topic of diesel engines, my uncle a mechanic for diesel engines suggested that I spray a small amount of propane into the air intake to burn up sludge to keep the engine relatively clean. Need to get second opinion of that idea before I try it?
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It did this funny thing about 4-5 times over a span of about 24 hrs before dying and then won't start. It was like hitting the limit on a speed governed car.....sudden momentary loss of power..and it seemed to be when accelerating if that matters. The thing I'm sure of at this point is that the fuel pump is not coming on when the key is turned, I know that sound well, but also checked it at the external connector with a test light for thoroughness. I also found a blown fuse under the hood which coincided with a little smokey smell inside the car when the fuse was replaced and blew again.
There is no spark as well. My Haynes book says that the PCM is behind the passenger kick panel but I only see the eecv and it doesn't smell burnt. The IFS is good. There is power at the coil packs. Fuel pump relay fuse is good. Is it more likely the ccrm since it contains the fuel pump relay and PCM relay or could it still be the eecv? It feels like one part failed but is causing more than one "problem", no power to fuel pump and no spark.
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Having problems where sometimes the car won't go into gear, other times it's fine? The problem started after some hard acceleration in 3rd, there was what felt like a momentary loss in power. I dipped the clutch as I thought a boost pipe had popped off, all was fine (still seeing boost when revved). After this it got progressively harder to get gears, finally resulting in not being able to get into gear at all.
I found I could get it into 1st with the engine off and could go up gears normally, but couldn't change down without stopping and turning the engine off. The clutch is working fine, the biting point is normal. The problem seams to come and go randomly, it will work fine for a while and then start playing up again. When working the gearbox feels normal, there is no grinding or wining noises. I can move between gears normally and do clutch less gear changes.
There is now a vibration which can be felt at 1000rpm when stationary. It feels like it coming from the engine/gearbox and seems like something is out of balance as it shakes the whole car. The car is on 91k, supercharged running 470hp & 370lb/ft (at flywheel) and is fitted with a Spec stage 3+ clutch and solid flywheel.
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Not sure if it did it last summer, but I have noticed that with the AC on when I come to a stop the RPM drops to right around 500 for a second and car has a light shudder (no doubt from the RPM being too low). Since it is only with AC on and for such a short time, is this a sign of something out of whack, or is it normal?
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When I take off from a start it will intermittently stumble or hesitate, seems to be around 1500 rpm. have also noted it at higher speed while cruising. its more like a momentary power cut than a miss fire.
So far I have done the following
new fuel filters
clean MAF
new PCV valve
new spark plugs
check all hoses and plugs etc
injector clean
checked techstream for codes. there is one for a heated O2 sensor but dont think thats it.
2002. SC430
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I have a 1999 F350 200,000 miles. Now getting an intermittent engine light. Still runs well, although once or twice I felt a momentary surge at highway speeds. The light is on intermittently about 1/2 time. I read the codes and the following codes, as in the thread title, came up:
P0280 - ICP circuit out of range - low
P0113 - intake air temp sensor circuit - high input
P0470 - Exhaust back pressure sensor circuit malfunction
P0478 - Exhaust pressure control valve - high input
What would make these all code at the same time? Would these not make a noticeable problem driving? And how do I resolve these?
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We have a 2004 Saturn Vue that has been in the shop FOUR times for a loss of power issue. The check engine light will come on and almost simultaneously the loss of power light will come on and the car will pretty much come to a stop. So far they have replaced the computer, gas pedal, wiring to the computer, cat converter...it is still doing it!
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I've recently rebuilt my toyota celica gt and the engine management light was on , I wiped it and keep getting the same code 52 which I think is the knock sensor car drives terrible under load , idles up and down a little , I've actually replaced the sensor just now and wiped the ecu but as soon as I rev it , bang it's back and I'm getting the same code 52.
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I have a Sonata 2008 model which has done only 40K miles so far. All of a sudden i got the engine management light on and i scanned it in the garage. They are saying the fault is with EGR Valve and it needs to be replaced. They reset it and now the light is not ON.
Could it just be a glitch or is it really a problem with EGR valve. I am really confused on what to do, because when i got a second opinion from a local garage they said there is no need to replace - simply a clean would do....
2 days after the engine light reset, when i took the car off the park i suddenly got a grinding noise from the front of the car and i switched if off and re-started and the noise went away..not sure whether this could be linked with EGR valve or was it a simple gear slip.
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I have a 2008 FX2 5.4L F150. Recently it began to lose power on a friend driving it out of town. He got a check engine light then it just progressively became unable to produce power. It ran but he got down to 10 mph before he could get to a firestone. I got it to a local Ford dealer and they say i need a new engine. They gave me codes for cam sensor and timing and #5 and #6 misfire. (344, 345)
No oil in radiator, no water in oil. The crazy thing is it runs like the day i bought it in Park. But once in gear it begins to cough and then eventually shudders and dies. I haven't changed plugs ever. I know... At about 75 miles it began to idle rough at times and in reverse. But once I revved up it went away.
I replaced both cam sensors but no luck. Today i put it on a tow truck to get a second opinion from a local engine shop. I actually backed it down my driveway, and pulled up to the tow truck with no issues. weird...
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My father owns a 2003 Santa Fe GLS with the 2WD 2.7L V6 engine.
Recently it has been having lots of power loss issues. It vibrates/misses when idling, if you put your foot down on the gas pedal, whether under load or not, it sometimes stalls or just sits there. We took it to Hyundai, and they had no error codes. They charged us $150 to tell us nothing is wrong with it, when clearly something is. The car has become downright dangerous to drive because it cannot make it up hills without stalling/losing power.
The most recent thing we had done to it was the wires/spark plugs changed, which I think was at 65k on the odometer?
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