Ford F-150 (2004-2008) :: Momentary Moan / Growl And Bog Down At Town And Highway Speeds
Jun 18, 2012
5.4L... My truck has a momentary moan / growl / bog down issue. It happens at town and highway speeds and usually when I have cruise on OR when I lightly apply the gas peddle. It moans for a few seconds and seems to bog down then comes out of it and carry's on its way. You can hear it plainly while driving even with radio on. I have a regular muffler on the truck but when this happens, it makes it sound like I have a catback on it.
Things i have done...
- New air filter
- New oil/filter
- New fuel filter
- Ran techron injector cleaner through tank of gas
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I have had an engine growl / howl problem that seemed to disappear with the cooler weather. However, turning the A/C back on yesterday, the growl/howl re-appeared. Is the A/C compressor bad? A/C clutch bad? Heading out on a long distance trip at the end of the month.
When the moan/ groan comes from the engine bay intake area, I have to back off of the throttle in order to re-accelerate... Gas pedal seems to become dead...
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I have a 1999 F350 200,000 miles. Now getting an intermittent engine light. Still runs well, although once or twice I felt a momentary surge at highway speeds. The light is on intermittently about 1/2 time. I read the codes and the following codes, as in the thread title, came up:
P0280 - ICP circuit out of range - low
P0113 - intake air temp sensor circuit - high input
P0470 - Exhaust back pressure sensor circuit malfunction
P0478 - Exhaust pressure control valve - high input
What would make these all code at the same time? Would these not make a noticeable problem driving? And how do I resolve these?
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The primary electric fuel pump in the fuel tank of my 2004 W12 failed last month, shortly after I had set out on a cross-Canada trip from Vancouver Island to Toronto. The whole process of diagnosing and identifying the cause of the problem, mitigating it so that I could continue the trip, and finally replacing the fuel pump was kind of complex, so, here's the write-up.
The problem presented itself as a surging of the engine - a momentary loss of power - at normal highway operating speeds. The onset was progressive, but it didn't take very long - only about 60 miles of driving - from the first little cough of the engine until total failure of the pump. The first indication was failure of the car to maintain speed (while on cruise control) when climbing hills. That progressed to failure to maintain speed on flat surfaces, and finally led to the car coasting to a stop, engine stalled, at the side of the road.
I soon learned that if I floored the accelerator pedal and held it against the floor, the car would cough and burp for a few seconds, then take off like a rocket. So, for the next 40 miles, I coaxed the car into the next city by flooring it, accelerating to about 80 MPH, then coasting until the speed dropped to 20 MPH, and flooring it once again and accelerating to 80 MPH. Fortunately, I was on a remote road with few other cars, and no police.
I checked the fuses for the two fuel pumps - fuses 34 and 35 in panel C (above the left battery), and they were both OK.
The next day, I visited a VW dealer in the Canadian Rocky Mountains, and together with the parts manager and one of the technicians, we looked at the Self-Study Guides (SSGs) for the Phaeton, and looked at wiring diagrams. Eventually, we came to a tentative conclusion that the primary electric fuel pump in the fuel tank had failed. The SSGs stated that the primary electric fuel pump (the pump on the right side of the car) operates all the time, and the secondary electric fuel pump (the pump on the left side of the car) only operates during starting and during 'periods of high demand'. That made sense to us - the car started fine, and worked OK when the accelerator pedal was held to the floor (high demand). It just didn't work worth a darn at any other time... the engine would stall, or, the car would not accelerate at all.
Here are two illustrations taken from the SSGs that describe how the fuel delivery system works. The first image is taken from the 'Phaeton Overview' SSG, which applies to all vehicles. The second image is taken from the W12 engine SSG. I kind of suspect that all the Phaetons operate in the same way, regardless of engine, because the fuel tank in all the Phaetons has the same shape - two lower lobes, which means two pumps are required.
Descriptions from the SSGs
I think that there may be an error in the description above. My experience suggests that the right hand pump (identified as G6, above) is the primary pump, and the left hand pump (identified as G23) is the one that switches on during starting and periods of high demand. Note also how the identification of G6 and G23 in the illustration above is reversed from what is shown in the illustration below. I believe that the text and illustration below is correct, and the text and illustration above is incorrect.
The 'effects of failure' in the description above would, I believe, make sense if it was the left-hand pump that failed. In my case, the right hand pump failed, and the effects of failure that I experienced were as I set them out in the beginning paragraphs of this post - quite different from the 'effects of failure' of the left hand pump that are described in the SSG above.
After coming to the tentative diagnosis that the primary electric fuel pump (the right hand pump) had failed, we checked the parts stock status in North America. There was one pump in stock, but it was in the United States, and being that it was a Thursday, the pump could not be delivered before the following Tuesday. I didn't want to spend that much time waiting for it, so, we started thinking about other possible solutions.
If we could somehow get the secondary electric fuel pump - the pump on the left side of the car that only operated during starting and heavy demand - to operate, that just might put me back on the road again. So, I removed the plastic cover from the small relay that operates the secondary pump, and wrapped a rubber band around the relay, thus keeping the relay in the closed position. A short test drive proved that this solution worked just fine, the car once again operated normally. The only "problem" was that the last 25% of the fuel in the tank would be unusable, because that fuel would be left behind in the right-hand lobe of the tank - the lobe with the defective primary fuel pump.
Electric Fuel Pump Relays
Here is an illustration from the Phaeton wiring diagrams identifying the various relays above the left battery.
Here you can see the two relays for the electric fuel pumps. They are identical part numbers.
Here you can see the relay for the secondary electric fuel pump, with a rubber band wrapped around it to keep it continually closed.
Aside from the loss of use of the last 25% of the fuel in the fuel tank, the car worked just fine with the secondary electric fuel pump running all the time. There were no problems noted even under heavy acceleration. It was, however, necessary to physically remove the rubber-banded relay from its position in the relay panel whenever the car was shut down for more than half a hour. The power to this relay comes from Terminal 30 (battery direct) - it is not switched on and off with the ignition as Terminal 15 power is. This meant that if the rubber-banded relay was left in position overnight, the left hand battery would totally discharge, because the fuel pump would operate continuously all night. I discovered this the morning after the first night...
So, for the next 8 days, I drove across Canada, removing the relay each night and replacing it each morning. I didn't bother to remove it when I stopped for meals or fuel. The rest of the 3,000 mile trip was uneventful - except once, when I let the fuel tank run down a bit too close to the 1/4 full mark, and the car began surging again because the left hand lobe of the fuel tank (with the functional secondary pump) had emptied out. That was a close call, but I managed to get to a gas station and refuel.
After arriving in Toronto, I called the parts staff at my home VW dealer and ordered a new primary electric fuel pump. I discovered that the left and right hand pumps are slightly different (the various hoses coming out of the pumps are different), and I also discovered that a pump costs about $400. The parts staff suggested I order two seals (one for each side of the tank), because I would have to remove both the right and left fuel tank covers to change the right pump. The seals were not expensive.
Here are two pictures that illustrate where the pumps sit in each lobe of the fuel tank. Note the fuel filler port on the left side of the pictures (as we know, it is on the right side of the car) for orientation.
Phaeton Fuel Tank, showing pumps
Fuel Pump Access Panels
Below is a picture that shows where the access panels to the two fuel pumps are. It's easy to get to these access panels, just remove the carpeted panel from the floor of the trunk.
Here's a close-up of the right side (primary) electric fuel pump access panel.
The instructions (from the VW Repair Manual, or the ELSA / ErWin system) for replacing the fuel pump are quite well written. The repair manual suggests that the fuel tank be drained before replacing a pump. I didn't want to drain the tank, so, I ran the fuel level down as low as I dared (remembering that 1/4 full is effectively 'empty' with a failed primary pump). That proved to be adequate.
There are a heck of a lot of steps involved in disconnecting all the hoses and loosening the various components before the pump can be removed. I strongly suggest that anyone attempting this task have a printed set of instructions before starting disassembly.
The fuel pump has quite a few hoses and connections on it, but fortunately, each connector is unique in design, thus it is not possible to hook things up the wrong way when installing the new pump. It is possible to 'lose' a hose inside the tank... for this reason, I attached a small piece of string to each hose I disconnected from the pump.
The process goes more or less like this:
1) Remove the two 404 relays, to ensure no power is sent to either fuel pump.
2) Lift the rubber cover, and remove the electrical connections from both pumps (left and right).
3) Using a special tool, lift up the three fasteners that hold the cap over top of the access panel (these are NOT threaded fasteners!)
Here is a side view of the three fasteners that hold the plastic cap in place - they are friction fit, not threaded.
4) Now you have a clear view of the access panel. It will probably be dusty and rusty, and should be vacuumed clean before proceeding, to prevent crap from falling into the fuel tank when the cap is removed. The rust is due to condensation forming on the cold metal part whenever the car is filled with cold fuel from an underground storage tank.
5) A special VW tool is used to remove the locking ring from the access panel.
6) After removing the locking ring, I buffed it up with a wire brush to remove surface corrosion.
7) The plastic access cap can now be lifted. There are two electrical connectors on each fuel pump, but three possible fittings on the plastic cap. Fortunately, the three fittings are keyed differently.
8) This is what you see inside the tank after removing the plastic cap.
9) After following all the detailed instructions for disconnecting and stowing hoses, disconnecting the fuel measurement probe from the pump housing, etc., it is possible to lift the pump out. It will be full of fuel.
10) The old and new pumps, side by side. I was very surprised at the amount of crap that was trapped in the filter screen at the bottom of the pump. The car only has 60,000 miles on it, and I have always used premium fuel in it.
11) I was also a bit surprised at the discolouration of the pump components. Below you can see the old and new pumps side by side.
12) It is necessary to get access to the opposite side (in this case, the left side) fuel pump, because hoses from each pump travel horizontally across the tank and connect to the other pump.
13) Here you can see a new hose from the right side pump connecting into a T fitting above the left side pump. It is easy to thread this hose across the top of the inside of the tank.
14) As mentioned earlier, there are three possible fittings on the base of each plastic cap, but only two connectors within the fuel tank. Everything is keyed, thus improper assembly is not possible.
Once the new pump has been installed, the hoses connected, and the fuel measuring probe reset into the side of the new pump, re-assembly of everything is quite straightforward. I replaced the rubber ring around the access panel opening on each side of the tank, and I also buffed up the locking rings using a wire brush (to remove corrosion) on each side.
It was not a pleasant job - your hands get covered in fuel, and there are some hazards associated with working on an open fuel tank with vapour escaping, but it is not a particularly difficult job. It is time-consuming, though.
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06' 5.4 screw 100K... At 55mph my truck just stopped running, I pulled over to the side of the road and after two trys the truck restarted but ran rough. Auto Zone pulled a code that said replace the throttle position sensor, I did and the same thing happened again two weeks later just as before.
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I have a 2007 F150 King Ranch Super Crew 5.4 3v and it makes a ticking sound. I have read about the VCT solenoids and the phasers. My issue is that the ticking noise can be heard at Highway speeds. At it seems to be quicker as the engine speed increase. Not sure what to think. No rough idle. What could this be.
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First, details about my truck. 2007 F150 SuperCrew, 2wd, 5.4, 203,xxx miles on it, leveled with Hell Bent Steel 2.5" kit last year, has been aligned professionally since then, tires are good and balanced.
The issue I have is a vibration, kind of the same feeling when driving on a road surface that has had the top level of asphalt removed before it's resurfaced. It's mostly noticable at highway speeds. Its not a violent type vibration, but you can feel it. There is also a sound, similar to tires with a deep off road type tread.
The sound and vibration more noticeable when making lane changes or when wheel turned towards left, at highway speeds, not as much to the right. I've checked front wheel bearings, they are good, zero play, no loose suspension parts, u-joints are good, no leaks anywhere.
Since it makes the noise and vibration a bit more when moving wheel, could it be a power steering pump? The pump is the original.
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I have been having a strange engine moan now for a few weeks. It happens on light acceleration before the truck shifts at all speeds. It can be faint or extremely loud and I can keep it doing it if I keep the throttle in the same spot when it starts. Also now lately when it does it I can smell exhaust in the cab. No codes are being thrown...naturally
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I have an '05 F150 5.4L with 110k miles on it. Bought it used about 2-3 years ago and have had on-going ignition system problems. The current problem is a significant shudder/shake/vibration that occurs when driving 50mph+ (easy to reproduce around 65-70) on the freeway, when starting up a minor, but noticeable incline. This is an incline that doesn't require much additional throttle, and this trouble occurs with cruise control on and off. the truck starts shuddering pretty rough during the incline. However, if I release the accelerator (and go up incline with slightly lower speed) or give lots of gas on accelerator the shudder usually stops. The shudder always clears after the incline when returning to flat road and just cruising.
This occurred on a recent trip a few times and I pulled the following codes (in order):
P0356 (once) : Ignition Coil F (6) Primary/Secondary Circuit Malfunction
P0302 (recurring): misfire on cylinder 2
I have since purchased and replaced the coil on #2. This did not resolve the problem. I have replaced coil on #6 in the last year...
Because I saw a suggestion somewhere on the net around this problem while searching, that this could be related to OD, I tried disabling OD and enabled OD on an incline today to test after replacing COP on #2 and it seemed to resolve the issue to turn OD off. Not sure if related...?
Other observation: Cab of truck often smells of gas just after starting the truck. Mentioned this to the shop, but they didn't find anything obvious.
Short history of codes and work that has been done:
Sometime in early 2011: Ford service dept did this work.
First failure was coil bad on #7. Tech swapped 7 & 8 to verify the problem followed the coil. Then when the problem DID follow the coil, he replaced #8 with new.
05/2011 MacKenzie Ford changed all plugs
12/2011 - swapped out COP on #7.
02/2012 - P0306 - Now, COP #6 is reported as bad.
November/December 2012
P2104 P Throttle Actuator Control (TAC) - Forced Idle
P2112 P TAC Stuck Close
P2111 TAC Stuck Open
I did throttle body clean - removed it and used TB cleaner. replaced...
Late December 2012 - while driving on freeway at speeds 50+, but easily reproduced around 60 after starting up a slight incline. symptom is heavy shudder/shake. Possibly resolved by turning OD off.
P0356 (once) : Ignition Coil F (6) Primary/Secondary Circuit Malfunction
P0302 (recurring) : Misfire on cylinder 2
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2006' screw, 5.4L, 116K miles ... The truck looses power at highway speeds to the point that I need to pull off of the road. When this happens the check engine light is on and the truck is still running but will not accelerate, is it possible the computer is going into limp mode and if so what would cause this?
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So my 07 with 125k miles has had new rotors for about 50k miles or so, but for a while now when the brakes get hot it gets a violent shudder on braking at highway speeds....the odd part to me is nothing at lower speeds, and not always at higher speeds....do I just have warped rotors again? The rest of the front end I good and tight....
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Lately, when slowing down to a stop, or very slow speeds, the intake ducts make a very loud moan. It sounds like a muted horn really. Sometimes, I can put it in park, and it'll be making the noise. Open the hood, and it feels like it is coming from the plastic intake tube. When it does this, the motor likely stalls out, and needs to be restarted.
Another issue, we cruise with it at roughly 100 kph. It works good, that 4.0 has gobs of power, but when cruising, sometimes it will very randomly work bad, just have a misfire hissy fit! It doesn't affect the cruising, but it just works funny.
Its a 1997 Ford Aerostar with the 4.0 OHV, and the E- 4wd with the Dana TC28 transfer case.
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I have a 2005 Supercrew 4X2 with 110,000 miles on it. Lately I've noticed at 30 mph and up if I steer to the left I get a growling noise from the left front. When I straighten up or steer right it goes away. I don't feel anything in the steering wheel or seat of the pants...just this growling noise during a left steer. Tires are about half wore out...I went ahead and rotated them to see if the growl moved. It didn't, stays in the left front.
Does that sound like the bearings in the rotor are on the way out? It won't stop raining so I haven't had a chance to jack it up and see if I have I have play in that tire/wheel. I thumbed through my Haynes manual and it seems pretty straight forward to replace the rotor. New rotors/bearings, one time use nut, might as well do pads while I'm in there, torque nut to 275 ft. lbs. Am I on the right track? Any other way to diagnose this growl? Is the R&R of the rotor as easy as it sounds? Tips or trick, things I should know that Haynes isn't telling...
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My 2008 Ford Focus SE hesitates at highway speeds, seems to decelerate and accelerate, sometimes more, sometime less and sometime not at all. dosn't seem to affect the acceleration.
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New, 2 month old 2015 CC, gas 4x4 with standard bed. At 50-55 I have a rolling vibration, or it can even be explained as a slight growl. Seems worse since I upgraded to 285/75/18 Toyo AT's and new wheels. If i speed up to about 60, goes away. If I pop it down to 5th gear, it seems to go away, however, I need to try this a few more times to make certain.
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The other day I pulled a fella out of a ditch. It was a dulley 350 with a lowboy trailer and a small dozer on it.
Well, after finishing and driving away. I inadvertently left the truck in 4x4 while driving on wet pavement at speeds ~30 mph. What I noticed was: when I let off the accelerator there was a low growl/vibration noise coming from the front/under the floorboards while the truck coasted to slower speeds.
I have never had my truck A) in 4x4 on clear roads or B) at speeds above 10mph in 4x4. Maybe they all make noise at low speeds in a quite cab in 4x4. I wouldn't know, I've never driven it under these conditions.
So, can you hear your truck in 4x4 when not giving it gas and coasting on the road?
I did not think I put the truck through too much while pulling that fella out, but now I'm wondering....oh, and I at one point I coasted forward and ran over the towing strap that was attached to my front pull hook and it made a HECK of a noise...could that have done something bad?
4x4 still works, and everything seems/sounds fine otherwise. I might just be hearing the front end putting friction on the transfer case and I can hear it in the tranny as she coasts to a stop (it goes away as soon as I press the accelerator at any speed) but like I said, I've never noticed this before.
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I have a 2004 Ford Escape XLT, auto,V-6, with 129000 miles on it. It runs fine except for a couple of things. One is, at highway speeds the transmission will seem to shift up and down. Also sometimes at highway speeds I get what I describe as a "bump" or "shudder" I think it is coming from the transmission.
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I'm having an issue with my wife's 2008 Camry. We're feeling vibration at highway speeds. Feels like it's coming from the front passenger side. We've had all 4 tires replaced (two of them replaced twice because we got lucky and the shop gave us a set of 4 for free with all the trouble we were having with the goodyear tires they sold us), and added hub-centric rings to her wheels. There are no noises to tell me whether it's a cv axle or a bearing. I've been under the car and the only thing I can find that comes close to loose is that the passenger side axle has a just a little more side to side play (runout - inner cv) than the driver's side.
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My wife and I have owned our '08 Corolla since brand new. It is up to 162,000 miles now, and has developed a fairly serious handling issue. The car wanders at highway speeds (60mph+). This generally only occurs with some wind, on a long straight without wind you can take your hands off the wheel and it goes straight without issues. With wind, either natural or from nearby vehicles, it wanders around even if you're in a long sweeping turn. It doesn't weave totally out of a lane, but it does feel very unstable. On dry roads it's mostly a nuisance, requiring two hands and being tiring. If it's raining, however, the car feels like it's trying to hydroplane constantly, although I don't think it's actually hydroplaning that's just the sensation.
It started probably 20,000 miles ago and has gotten dramatically worse in the last ~5,000. I took it to a shop and asked them to go through the suspension and they gave it a clean bill of health. After that I took it in for tires and an alignment (needed tires anyway) and told the tire shop what I was experiencing. They put 4 new tires on, plus an alignment, and said they didn't find anything wrong with it either. As an aside it's running the stock steel wheels still.
I drive 50 miles each way to work, mostly highway, so this is getting to be a serious problem. It's to the point that I drive my truck when it's going to be raining, and white-knuckle it in the corolla when it's dry out. I've read similar accounts, and checked everything that other people have found to cause similar issues, and so have two shops. Tierod ends and control arm bushings are good. The rack seems good (no play at all in the steering wheel) plus I've driven plenty of vehicles with slop in the steering and they didn't feel like this and only tended to wander when going straight because a sweeping turn takes the play out of the steering. The struts are original all around, but the car easily passes the "bounce test". Is there a better way to check them?
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My T&C strikes again... Now it shakes when braking at highway speeds (thinking rotors are warped and need changed), but today the brake light, traction control, and ABS lights all come on and stay on when I drive...
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Have a 2008 Elantra GLS with 63K miles. A/T was serviced by dealer at 51K. Car now occasionally downshifts from 4th to 3rd when driving between 60 and 70 mph. Happens only when trans is hot (after 2-3 hours on hiway). When it occurs, it searches for the right gear, going back and forth from 3rd to 4th for several minutes before returning to normal. One thing odd is if I shut the car off for 5 minutes after it occurs, it runs fine afterwards. Do I need an ECU update or do I have a A/T problem?
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